My Faith In America Is Dead Today

ok, so I am a bit saddened that the worst of the two evils won (btw: I consider myself a libertarian), but the world is not going to come to some epocolepsic ending just because W won. Give me a fucking break. Nothing bad happened during his first four years (at least not that anybody could control), and it is unlikly that anything bad would will happen over the span of next year. I wish you people would put things in prepective. Yes, Bush is a fuck up. He didnt pick his battles wisely and we ended fight an ineffective war in Iraq instead of focusing on actual terror. And the Patriot Act does chip away some of our rights, but then again, so did Lincoln during the Civil War. But to put things in perspective, 9-11 is nobodies fault. Neither the librals nor the conservatives could have done shit about it. Hey, shit sometimes happens. Anyway, 3000 lives were lost there, and then we have about somewhere between 10,000 to 20,000 lives lost in Iraq. At the expense of sounding insesitive, big deal, thousands of people die each day anyway. How many is it, 43,000, that die in auto crashes in the US. Then we have heart attacks from all the crap we eat, cancer, crime. Hell, even suicde "kills" more people than crime, much less terror or war. Not to even mention the deaths in 3rd world countries because of lack of birth control and poverty. Hell, there was an earthquake in Iran a while back ago killing 20,000, and it didnt even make the front page. Ok, I am a bit off topic here, my bad.

back to what I was saying, its not really Bush's fault that we our being outsourced either. Companies just want to reduce overheard (practicly a law of nature) and they will find ways to get around legistaltion anyway. Neither Kerry nor Bush can do shit about outsourcing, so lay off.

ok, so the bad news is that we got an idiot for president (or at least he's pretending to be one, which I wouldnt be surprised one way or the other) who cant tell Arabs apart, wants to stop stem-cell research, overturn Row-vs-Wade (which there are good points on both sides of that debate), and wants to change the constitution to satisfy his base (or at least a small part of it), and thinks that rapure will come in the Middle East and Iraq was a part of it; but on the bright side the good news is (that I saved 15% on my car insurance by switching to Geico, ok just kidding ) that we have for President someone who will let us young people do whatever the hell we want with our social security money, get rid of some government buracracy from medicine; and lower my taxes.

see, nobody is 100% bad.

as much as I was disappointed by the results, I really didnt care that much one way or the other. Neither of these two dopes would lead this country to a better place.

i close mine eyes and see the truth

[QUOTE BY= Hx] Well, shit.
[/QUOTE]

I heard today that the reason for the exit poles being so different was because when people started realizing that Kerry might win, they started selling their stocks which in turn pushed votes towards Bush.

Stouf1,

I'm glad to hear to you come seeking different opinions and discussions. I questioned why you would choose to post here, and if that is the reason then more power to you.

You must realize that here your opinion will be in the minority, and I have a soft spot for any underdog so god be with you.

And who knows if you stick around long enough maybe you will be persuaded to come to the side of light. HAHA.

the thing is with this election, a lot of votes were lost in the computer systems, which was bad for kerry. I'm gonna be honest, i don't like kerry, but i hate george bush, so i had to vote against him and i voted for kerry. but i was still surprised that 40% of my state which is NYC ended up voting for bush. ( I just wish Bill Clinton was still around). And as for ohio and florida, we should all know they were tampered with. first of all, a lot african-american voters were denied the right to vote for the most bullshit reasons, second of all, after the 2000 election african american voters in florida voed to get their revenge on GWBush. and as for ohio, i was listening on the radio ch. 1190 AM in NYC (i recomend this station to everyone b/c it is a really good independent station) at 12:00 midnight on election night there were still hunderds of thousands of people waiting to vote in the rain, and i heard it was freezing but they still waited anyway. Now ur trying to tell me that hunderds of thousands of people would do that to vote for the status quo, thats bullshit. they said one of the voting precincts stated that NEGATIVE 25,000,000 people came to vote. America needs to open their eyes and see what is happining to us. I think everyone is just too mixed up in what gang they're trying to be in "oh i'm a democrat, or oh i'm a republican". people cannot just form an opinion without hearing the issue, we need to hear the issue first, let it swirl around our heads for a while then we form an opinion. I don't consider myself a democrat or a republican, i consider myself independent (although at this point i do agree with the democrats more). But just like Sixty4fairlane said after this election i just give up on America we are the land of idiots now after all this, we are the land where nobody questions higher authority, not even that but we want more and more government. this is supposed to be a democracy, it only says that on a piece of paper which we call our constitution and people died to defend it. I'm sick of this shit, and i'm sick of trying to educate ignorant people who think they know things because they watch Fox News. Even after bush is out of office in 4 yrs the country is still gonna be all fucked up because of what he created and its gonna take years after that to even try to get us out of this pile of shit he just put us in. and one more thing al queda had no connections with iraq before the war, but now they do because of G. Bush, so terrorism is not decreasing, its increasing don't be fooled by the media

sixt4fairlane,

Thanks. I appreciate it.

Convert to the side of light? NEVER!!! Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. Sorry, just had a Star Trek TNG moment. I couldn't resist.

I'm assuming you probably saw the movie "Starship Troopers". Did you ever read the book? I never have, although it is available on Amazon. I heard it is way, way different than the movie.

Sorry, never got into X-Files. Not that I would have thought it would be a bad show, just never found time to watch it.

[QUOTE BY= jlock] Even though our side lost this election, it was still fair and democracy in this country is anything but dead. Over 100 million voted in a peaceful election. There is nothing wrong with this. Actually there is a lot right with it. We are a great example for the rest of the world[/QUOTE]

I guess you have seen the gettos in this country.

No, I'm saying that this country would be alot better off if Bush and every other president before him, who stuck their nose where it didn't belong,spreading fear of foreign powers amongst the US population and thinking with their m-16 instead of using their head.
FEAR and GREED drive this country to stick their hands in other governments business.
SO WHAT if we don't have enough oil, we act like we can't live without it, like a junky needs his fix.We don't believe in our own country enough to use our heads and change over to alterative fuel sources and maybe suffer a little during the interim.No, God forbid we should go without for a while!! The only real sacrifice we are called to make(besides soldiers) is to give our money to Uncle Sam.And this sacrifice is rarely out of choise, they just TAKE IT.There is no honor in that.
COWARDS run this country, men who can't or won't use their power to affect positive change because the DOLLAR has them by the balls. And they have the nerve to call themselves Christian
MOST of our tax dollars have gone to military escapades and not to improving the livelihood of our own needful citizens. A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link.

I guess you have seen the gettos in this country.

I'm not saying our country is perfect, there are a lot of problems, and a lot of things our government can do to help out the little guy, but it seems that our side always focuses on the bad things our country does, and doesn't see the good things. 100 million voting in a peaceful election is a good thing, and we should be proud of it. The fact that every one in this forum cares about the poor and needy is a good thing. There are a lot of countries out there that give nothing to the poor.

As an international observer of the state of the union I have no other interest in the elections than who will guide the behemoth and make sure it is under control instead of running rampant across the planet.
However, I believe Kerry gave in too soon so that his cuz could win, for whatever reason. I believe that the use of electronic voting allowed an abuse of the trust of the people for the second time.

Try blackboxvoting.org or opednews.com as an example of what went wrong. Negative numbers, more voters than were registered, large suspicious swings in some counties, and the use of fear of terror and war aligned with an obviously biased media to hand the election to Mr Bush.

The thought that strikes me as pertinent is that after all these shenanigans the republicans still only won by 1%
I wonder if this means that if they hadnt rigged it would Kerry have won by a landslide.

Oh and free the refugees, No war in Iraq, bring them home now. And, by the way I dont wear al-u-mini-um foil as head gear.

But I do have a prime minister from whom your president stole his pre-election speech at least they sounded the same with "who do you trust".

I could debate this matter and point out many many things that have happened in my fifty years on this planet. Mostly of the death and destruction coming from large industrialised nations around the globe. Instead I will umbly point out to people who want to take issue with me that there may be a lot of things of which they are unaware.

So please do some study or research, then again I am not even sure this message will get posted as the FSTV seems to be having tech problems. Then again maybe its just HomeSec making sure that the real message doesnt get out.

If it takes the death of 80% of the planet just so the PNAC 20% can survive then I am sure that they will have to carry me off. Brzezinksi, Rumsfield,Cheney, Wolfy Boy, Bushs Brain , Connie and all of them will probably never be hauled before any kind of tribunal, they wont even answer questions under oath.

Of course it is interesting that Powell, Ashcroft and others of a seemingly moderate stance are leaving this party to end all parties.

Actually I am glad Bush won because if he hadn't or if the outcome had been contested then there is the very real chance you would have had more terror attacks.

As a pro active leader of a rock band once sang.

Its better to live on your feet than die on your knees.

But as I say

Good people of conscience who believe that there is a better way and type of world to live in, are increasing in their numbers. It is my hope that we will all come to the new electronic common ground, where we may meet face to face without fear or prejudice to join hearts and minds while we really listen to each other and try to make it better for all the children of the future, after all they are the ones who really count.

HaHa...good stuff. Well - confession time.
Not only do I live in Ohio ('the new florida!'), but I also, gulp, work for one of the companies intimately involved in this issue. Won't say the name, but it rhymes with "SEE-BOLD."

Yes, that's right neighbors. I am in the belly of the beast.

Stouf1,

Much better, I have a little more respect for you now. Yes, indeed, I will strive in my efforts to support what I believe is right. Will I care when you and your ilk reep what you are sowing today. No, I will not. Let the dead american soliders stack up, we had a choice, let the economy fall apart, we had a choice, let the repub senate and house amend Patriot act ad infitium, we had a choice.

We had a choice and the majority spoke. Thing is I can't seperate myself from them. What happens to them, happens to me. We can't seperate the democrats from the republicans, we all live here, and we will all suffer here.

STOUF1:

Same to you. If you don't want to be constructive, don't post at all. Yes, this is a place for everyone to share their opinions, but don't insult other people. As for sixty4fairlane, I agree with you fully that the "brainless masses" are being very ignorant in their re-electing W.

Just ignore stouf if he's going to choose to be immature. (In that way)

- - Bridger

Well, shit.

I'm not one for conspiracy theories. Well, that's not entirely true - i just KNOW the gov't has pickled Grey Alien bodies in a tank somewhere...but I'm trying to avoid election conspiracy theories. Probably just because i don't WANT to believe them...I MUST believe that the elections are (reasonably) uncorrupt, otherwise i'll completely lose my grip - and my faith in our system.

HOWEVER...today is Nov. 5th. I just read in the NYTimes that the consortium of media companies that spent $10million to create a REVAMPED exit poll system have already issued a report explaining what went wrong with their system, and why early returns showed Kerry winning.

That was in THIS MORNING'S Times. That means the report must have been completed yesterday, at the latest. Two days after the election. Pretty fast diagnosis, no?

My friend pointed out that this is the second election where exit polling has been so wrong, and also the second election that electronic voting has been widely used.

Like I said, I'm trying not to see a conspiracy here. Really, really trying...

USA TODAY headline says that Bush is "humbled" by being re-elected.
I say, "YEAH,RIGHT !"

Dear Stouf1,

After reading your response I reread mine. And yes as I thought, I never knew of you or mentioned you. So why is it you would choose to insult me. Do you feel guilty of your decision to use your one vote to support an oppressive militiary state of GW ?

Did I stand in your way of voting ? Was I in front of you blocking your way into the booth. Not hardly. You had a choice and you made it. I say again, I will not expend any more effort to help your kind see the error of your ways. It is over, it is done. I will leave 51% of america to the world of thier choice. Me and the other 48% of america who stood up and said war is wrong will live with our choices.

I certainly hope that enlightened individuals such as yourself dont fall silent in this defeat. If anything it has turned this stay at home mom/artist into an enraged woman, ready to fight for her independence and for the ideals first set forth by our forefathers. I am ready to storm the country with enlightenment and education, afterall, maybe we need to be completely ravaged and bankrupt before the enlightenment movement can catch on. I just hope they dont burn the Constitution in effegy and that we dont have to stage a coup to overcome the real terrorists, the neo-cons. The real world enemy are these folks and once the entire world places embargos and ceases trade with the US, and Bin Laden's goals are met with the bankruptcy of the nation, maybe people will realize that even 2000 + lives lost in 911 aren't worth the devestation that we are about to behold.